Tuesday, January 18, 2011

The Doctors: Daytime Talk Show Disaster


I was planning to critique last week's jaw-dropping (read: full of falsehoods) episode of The Doctors, but Freedom of Speech did such a stellar job, there is no need to add more. This video is well worth your 14 minutes of attention (and sharing).

Intro commentary from FreedomOSpeech:
Daytime television talk shows have never been known for giving the most reliable information to the public. A show called "The Doctors" is no exception.

I'm going to go over a segment of the show that aired on the 12th of January 2011.

The segment is about the proposed circumcision ban in San Francisco California. This bill would ban non-consensual genital cutting of minors when there is no immediate medical necessity. This bill is intended to protect minors, and does not ban medically necessary or adult consensual surgeries.

The clip begins with Dr. Drew Ordon making a horrible case for his position. Dr. Drew, you will henceforth be known as Doctor Fallacy.

Let's begin.




References

Special thanks to Sam of Gallifrey for help gathering sources and arguments. Subscribe here.

1. H. C. Bazett et al, "Depth, Distribution and Probable Identification in the Prepuce of Sensory End-Organs Concerned in Sensations of Temperature and Touch, Thermometric Conductivity," Archives of Neurology and Psychiatry 27 (1932): 489-517

2. Sorrells et al. (2007). Fine-touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis. British Journal of Urology, 99(4), 864--869. http://tinyurl.com/sorrells2007bju

3. Van Howe RS, Cold CJ. Advantages and disadvantages of neonatal circumcision. JAMA 1997:278:203.

4. Klein, A. (1989). The healing power of humor. New York, NY: Penguin Putnam.

5. Cornell, DH. (2003). Frequently Asked Questions. Circumcision Center. http://www.circumcisioncenter.com/faq...

6. Detailed Guide: Penile Cancer. What Are the Key Statistics About Penile Cancer?. (2006). American Cancer Society. http://tinyurl.com/penilecancer

7. Country Comparison - HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate. (2007). Central intelligence agency. http://tinyurl.com/ciahiv

8. "Countries" Measure Demographic and Health Surveys. N.p., 2010. http://www.measuredhs.com/countries

9. MedicineNet. (2011). Male Breast Cancer. http://tinyurl.com/mbcancer

10. 18 U.S.C. § 116 : US Code - Section 116: Female genital mutilation. (CITE: 18USC116). http://tinyurl.com/usafgm

11. World Health Organization. (2009). Eliminating Female Genital Mutilation: An Interagency Statement. UNFPA.http://tinyurl.com/eliminatefgm

12. Taylor JR, Lockwood AP, Taylor AJ. The prepuce: Specialized mucosa of the penis and its loss to circumcision. British Journal of Urology 1996; 77: 291-295. http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/t...

13. Lakshmanan S., Prakash S. Human prepuce: Some aspects of structure and function. Indian J Surg 1980;44:134-7. http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/l...

14. Gairdner D. The fate of the foreskin: A study of circumcision. Br Med J 1949;2:1433-7.

15. Frederick Hodges, Paul Fleiss. "Nontherapeutic Circumcision Should not be Performed," American Medical News, vol. 38, no. 26 (July 17, 1995): p. 16.

16. World Health Organization. (2010). Eliminating Female Genital Mutilation: An Interagency Statement. World Health Organization. http://tinyurl.com/2nfjmq

17. Stang , M.J., & Snellman, L.W. (1998). Circumcision practice patterns in the United States. Pediatrics, 101(6), http://pediatrics.aappublications.org... doi: 10.1542/peds.101.6.e5

18. Hitchens schools Rabbi on issue of genital mutilation. (2009). [Web]. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U93ZiR...

19. Planet Parent (season 1, episode 2). (2006). [Web]. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyYhRp...

20. Fleiss, PM. (1997, March). The case against circumcision. Mothering.

21. Mark, S, Brown, MD, Cheryl, A, & Brown, RN. (1987). Circumcision Decision: Prominence of social concerns. Pediatrics, 80(2), 215-219 http://tinyurl.com/aapcosmeticcirc

~~~~

74 comments:

  1. I thought this was fabulous. I'd totally share it on my FB but I fear I'd be crucified.:(

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  2. Those "Doctors" are idiots--did they all graduate at the bottom of their class?

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  3. Yeah, there's "no nerve damage" because there's no nerves anymore!!! Dumbasses.

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  4. It's sad that new parents are watching this and it's there only form of education they will get on the issue!

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  5. This is the worst "medical" show ever produced. I stopped watching it because every single episode included some misinformation or other from Dr. Lisa. It was just too infuriating to hear her giving out wrong info every day. So it doesn't surprise me that they don't know anything about circumcision.

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  6. This is an excellent illustration of how we're so often taught to regard doctors as infallible authority figures, when they're subject to the same misconceptions and biases as ordinary folks. Don't just take the doctor's word for it, get more information and make your own decision based on what's right for you and for your child (hint: NOT circumcision).

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  7. If they are this wrong on one subject, they are dangerously wrong on other subjects too.

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  8. I'm glad at least Dr. Sears made some effort to bring in a few good points, although he was quite a wimp about it.

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  9. Since it is Dr.Phil who runs this show,you can bet who is running behind all of it. It is another one of OPRAH's sock puppets shows! She needs medical help in order for her to keep rolling those creamy yummy foreskins on their $$making face creams?

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  10. That dr. lisa gives me the heebie jeebies.

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  11. My son is intact, my husband is not. I chose to let my son stay beautiful, and perfect ♥

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  12. So if my daughter is born with different shaped labia than me, why can't I have her cut to resemble me? It's a parental right, apparently.

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  13. Really, how much interaction does a son have with his dad's penis anyways?

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  14. "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Replies
    1. I am concerned that circumcision reduces sensitivity so much, that many circumsized men refuse to use condoms as they reduce sensitivity even more. This refusal of condoms can obviously spread disease, as many people these days are not monogamous. Keep foreskin, keep sensitivity, condom use may increase!

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  15. Very well done. I wish that Dr. Sears had been more forceful in his argument as he was the ONLY one fighting for the right to genital integrity. Seemed like he might have been intimidated or something.

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  16. I think Dr. Jim Sears is becoming more concerned with his "celebrity" status than protecting genital integrity. I think he's so wishy washy about it because he doesn't want to offend anybody, so he tries to take both sides. He did get some good points in there, but if you watch their previous segments on circ, he's clearly not fully anti-RIC.

    I really liked the video - a lot. Very well done, I think.

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  17. did someone send this to "the doctors" show?

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  18. I shared on The Doctors' FB page.

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  19. Whoever made this video is great! He perfectly uses different types of fallacies to explain how the debate for circumcision holds no water. There was not a single argument made that could not be shot down, just like every circumcision argument. Fabulous!

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  20. THANK YOU!!!! This is, in my opinion, more effective than articles. I am re-posting this immediately

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  21. This is great but the circumcision rate in the united states is not 50%. It's 32. When was this made?

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  22. Intact hubby and I just watched it together. We were reading Dr. Jim's body language and it was starting to look like he could barely stay in his seat. He was getting so agitated! ♥ the Sears family!!

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  23. Anyone know where I can find those HIV rate charts and comparisons on their own? I'd love to share them with people but I know most people I speak to about circ will not sit down and watch a 15 minute video.

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  24. That female ob? Where on earth did she go to medical school? Any school that would let her graduate should be shut down!

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  25. The show should be renamed "The Idiots". Even Dr. Sears doesn't give a good enough debate, but he's trying.

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  26. I am beginning to fear that the educated upper middle class that runs the American show is somehow constitutionally incapable of thinking straight about what hangs between every man's legs. The people who invented nuclear weapons and the internet just seem to lose it when the topic is foreskins.

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  27. Yes Roger, it is the circumcised that have trouble understanding because they prefer to remain safely in denial and will fight to stay therel. A good question to ask the circed physician "Aren't you curious to know what it feels like to have your foreskin back?"

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  28. My husband watched this video with me yesterday. He was circ'd as a baby and is outraged that he was robbed of the decision to keep his WHOLE body (he is going to restore). He's so proud that we have 100% of our child ♥ and that we were not a part of this barbaric practice.

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  29. "The Doctors" is still on? I think it is a disgrace. This video critique is the only redeeming value that it has brought about to the American public.

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  30. this and dr oz - its why i have stopped watching "grown up" tv during the day.

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  31. I watched this unfortunate episode when it was on, and just sat there with my mouth hanging open. What a complete pile of crap.

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  32. Dr. Sears' son is on that show and he states he is not for routine infant circumcision. This video is great though. Lisa makes herself look like she's never even been to freakin medical school. what a waste of money huh?

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  33. Dr. Jim Sears is still on the show and featured in this video making "thumbs up" worthy statements. I think he gets trampled on. Rarely do any of the other "Doctors" listen to him or let him state his case for or against anything.

    This show disgusts me. I am glad I stopped watching some time ago.

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  34. The Doctors are a JOKE! I cannot STAND Dr. Lisa UGHHHH!!!! Her comments on C-Sections a while ago were enough to make me want to puke!

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  35. In the end the AAP doesn't recommend it so anything they say is moot.

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  36. Excellent video that should be required watching for all parents.

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  37. The Drs. is the most socially irresponsible show in the history of television.

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  38. Men who wish they got to remain intact need to comment on the YouTube page

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  39. URGH!! It just makes me shake watching that! Dr. Lisa disgusts me on every level...

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  40. I wish dr sears was taken seriously more often and not just trampled all the time. He is a glimmer if sane that gets put out every time it matters.

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  41. DID SHE SERIOUSLY say it's a preventative measure against HIV and AIDS?!? what a flipping moron!

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  42. I agree that Dr. Masterson is ridiculous. OB/GYNs like her are the reason why so many women are blindly led into unnecessary inductions, c-sections, etc.

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  43. You know what's so weird about this whole thing? We as Moms are so vigilant and intense about doctors doing anything invasive to our kids. We second guess ourselves on necessary surgeries, do extensive research on the problem, get second and third opinions to see if it really needs to happen - and yet on circ we're so la de da, It's a choice every parent makes, and I let my husband decide b/c he has one, etc..
    Blows my mind!

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  44. Go Dr. Sears! I hope its put to an end babies don't deserve that crap! The religious thing is preposterous what if they don't want to be a part of that religion when they get older???

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  45. I love the guys voice. So educated and calm sounding. It really makes the others sound like they don't know what they are talking about.

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  46. Circumcision for religious purposes is FORCING religion on someone - Many people in other countries circumcise females for religious reason but it doesn't make it right. They use to sacrifice babies for religious reasons too, not right huh? Circumcision is a religious sacrifice.

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  47. True - the religious argument could be used to try and get the polygamy and female circumcision laws reversed. Because it is part of some people's religion.

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  48. Thanks so much for posting this. My hubby was circed, my son is intact. To me, this is a matter of human rights and I would never ever agree to permanent cosmetic surgery on either of my kids (daughter and son) when they cannot legally consent to it.

    I think the most disturbing part of it was 1) yes, these are doctors, what else do they have horribly wrong and 2) why were they laughing? Ugh. Babies die from this procedure. Some men have lifelong problems...and yet these "doctors" are joking about it and laughing about it. It made me nauseous.

    I did share this on FB. I don't care what others say...a little critical thought once in a while is good for people...

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  49. That woman literally made my blood boil. I'd like to educate her on everything she just told America... most of which is false and I'm sure we're going to hear it in more "why circ" arguments. I've never once heard of being circumcised preventing any kind of HIV/AIDS/STD... not once. It doesn't even make sense why it would prevent it? And for penile cancer? Seriously? That's like saying, "Well, you know, one day she could get cervical cancer... so let's remove her cervix." They'd never DREAM of doing that to a woman (without cause) much less a BABY GIRL... Our country is so blissfully ignorant.

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  50. Circumcision is REMOVING a healthy functioning body part from a non-consenting minor. IF someone had cut my genitals without my Permission you're damn right i would be angry.

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  51. Thanks for sharing. I sent the link to my mom, who had my brother circumcised because my dad had been. She had no problem with my leaving my son intact, but I am sure she would have had no problem with us choosing circumcision either. So many people treat it like a non-issue, and maybe this video will change that.

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  52. First they brought up the old "penile cancer" argument, then the one doctor countered that argument by stating the fact that more babies die from circumcision than would later get penile cancer. And the other docs just made no response to that, and kept going on as if they hadn't heard.

    I have noticed that before... when an argument is debunked, the arguer just trots out another argument without missing a beat or acknowledging it at all.

    At the mention of infant deaths, you would think they would at least pause for a breath or even PRETEND to care.

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  53. I'm curious, do people in US generally know that Europe doesn't circumcise? I am just so baffled with the Africa comparison. It'd make sense to me to compare US to Europe since it's more similar. Also, does anyone care that all the "problems" caused by being intact are not rampant here?

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  54. I think someone needs to take a good hard look at historical circumcision. There's no way in the Bible days that boys could be circed the same way they are now and lived. Between bleeding out and infection, the boy population would've gone way down! Thankfully I don't believe God made boys w/ extra parts that we need to remove for them to be able to have a relationship w/ Him.

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  55. The most telling thing about Dr. Masterson is that her own real-life patients consistently give her bad, one-star ("I wish I could give NO stars") reviews.

    Try Googling them, they make an interesting read.

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  56. Absolutely fantastic critique!!! ♥ I hope the other cast members of the doctors get wind of this!

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  57. @Jennifer. I agree with you. The way circumcision was done in Biblical days is in no way the way it is performed now. God didn't put it there for it only to be removed - for no reason!

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  58. I recently read that some countries believe having sex with a virgin (which means raping young women) will get rid of their HIV. Perhaps Dr. Know-nothing-at-all would like to back that theory up.

    And cutting for religious reason doesn't make sense because if there is a God, he gave you foreskin for a REASON!

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  59. I don't know who this man is that put this video together, but I am so happy he did. This is wonderful. I am totally thrilled and will be showing this to everyone!!! As someone who works in the birth industry, ALL of my clients will HAVE TO watch this!!!

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  60. I love the last point, have it cut off or wash it! GOLD

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  61. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Jim-Sears/182903081002

    This is the link for Dr. Jim Sears who supports keeping babies intact. Drop by his page and leave him a note, telling him he has many supporters!!!

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  62. Does anyone know if Dr. Jim Sears continues to practice infant circumcisions in his medical practice? On a previous episode of The Doctors (I believe it was the one about the most commonly performed surgeries on children), he mentioned that circumcision was unnecessary, but that he performed them in his office. I guess he doesn't want to lose out on any business :-/

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  63. Thank you for posting this...I am SOOO tired of people like this. BAN IT! The woman in this drives me insane...she needs to be awakened.

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  64. There is an 'I hate Dr. Lisa' group -

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Hate-Dr-Lisa/330803929205

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  65. Dr Sears discourages parents from opting for RIC, but will do it if they insist. If you read the AAPs 1999 statement carefully, it says that parents have a right to have their infant sons circumcised for "cultural and social reasons" which leaves doctors who disapprove of the procedure with no leg to stand on. We used to say in college "that's a loophole so big you could fly a 747 through it." :)

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  66. I am Swedish and circumsions are not common here. In fact I have only seen one circumsized penis in my life, my father's. He was circumsized as a child because of medical problems (thight foreskin and 1(!) infection) but he would probably not have been today. This was in the beginning of the 50ties or very late 40ties when it was more often done for those reasons but still very uncommon.

    If someone had said to him that he should have my three brothers circumsized because he was he would have believed that person was mentally ill. He was not really very glad to have been circumsized so he would never have let my brothers have one if it was not necessary.

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  67. Even their argument about parents making all the medical decisions for their children until they are 18 is incorrect, at least in the state of Colorado. When I was 14 I was given the option to have all of my medical history, tests, medications (most of them) hidden from my parents. I was even able to choose if my doctor was allowed to leave a voicemail on my home phone if it was concerning my medical stuff. I could get birth control without my parents consent. This show should be taken off the air!

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  68. What's sad is that many expectant couples who are are the fence about circumcision watched this show. This would have been a good way to educate them about the benefits of the foreskin and the reasons why circumcision should not be done. Instead, it's likely to convince many parents that it needs to be done for their child's own good- because if they don't they will be setting their sons up for future diseases and infections. Who would want their sons to have to go through that? It's so sad that ignorant parents are put in this position.

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  69. I am so grateful that I had the knowledge and that I did not allow this tragedy to happen to my son three years ago. As far as we've come, we are so backwards it's crazy!

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  70. Perhaps someone can get to the producers or the corporate leaders and explain to them what an embarrassment these idiots are to them. Sack 'em all and get some decent medical people on there. Or, if they want to keep it an entertainment show, get John Stewart to send 'em some comedians PLAYING US doctors, so everyone will know it's all a sarcastic joke from the outset. Probably improve their ratings a lot. Maybe it would be a good idea to send the link to FreedomOSpeech's video to The Daily Show.

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  71. WOW! When I was pregnant, I decided I was going to let my lil sunshine be a surprise. I was soo set on "If he's a boy, he'll definitely be circumcised so his peers won't tease him". THANK GOD I HAD A LITTLE GIRL, and I saw this video! If I have a boy in the future, I will leave him intact and let him decide as a man what he wants to do with HIS body. I'm so glad I found this.

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  72. argh! i just want to scream, smack someone up the side of the head, and physically shake some people.

    i circ'd my son (now 4) and i have regretted it from the time he was about 6 months old. i thought it was Biblical, and BOY was i wrong about THAT one. but no one mentioned it. no one talked about it. no one told me. if they had told me literally 6 months sooner, i wouldnt have done it. i felt nervous when they took him. i should have took that as a sign!!
    i regret it so much. and though my son, like many other men, wont know what hes missing, i am going to have a hard time having that conversation with him someday (hoping my son will have that conversation). because i know its unnecessary. because i know its not the same as it was Biblically. because i know how stupid it was to just blindly do it.

    argh. this is madenning.
    but i think making it illegal (though a good idea eventually) is not going to stop it. we need to stop judging those who do it (believe me i felt judged!) and start educating and giving people all the information.

    simple things such as requiring that doctors ask "are you keeping your son intact" instead of "are you circ'ing your son" is a start in the right direction. why must they ask it that way? little things. doing it without picketing, without judging, without pressuring. educate people from the clinic/docs office to the wic office to the net to the delivery room!

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